Stories: good for entertainment only? The second thing that the example establishes is that for many opponents of abortion (all those who say it is ok to unplug oneself from the violinist) the right to life of the fetus plays only a small background role in their justification of abortion’s impermissibility; of course, if the fetus did not have a right to life then abortion would be permissible, but these people believe that it is permissible to kill innocent beings which have a right to life in circumstances very like the circumstances of the fetus growing inside the pregnant mother. Found inside – Page 188“You did?” “Yes,” I said, my voice smaller now, hoping I had not committed some grave compositional error. “From what I know of it, I like the viola d'amore. It has a very rich, somber sound, but passionate in a way. And this piece . Purely emotive markers don’t mire anyone in incoherence; so, unless the very idea itself is self-contradictory, if people can hold inconsistent positions on right to life, it would seem to follow that Thomson is right that there is indeed a (more or less) definite sense to the phrase, which can be considered on its own. But of all the ways to make someone admirable, why make him or her a famous violinist? Thought-experiments certainly have some problems. And, ultimately, he’d be dodging the issue because his worldview just can’t accommodate the existence of rape. In The Pianist, lots of people were willing to do things to save a famous pianist that they didn’t do for others, and this didn’t strike me as unrealistic. How A Violinist Saved 1,000 Jews In World War II : Deceptive Cadence The story of how legendary violinist Bronisław Huberman used his prestige and fame toward a heroic end inspired a documentary . But from other discussions we see this leap of empathy can be very difficult for some people. But I’m supposed to believe with probability 1 that the trolley will be stopped if and only if I push the fat man. I always thought it was a fat man because the trolley would roll right over a skinny one. Why think that its purpose is to intervene in US politics? I guess this could be subsumed under Sam C’s “socialization.”. Generally speaking, the violinist case is marginally relevant to the case of a pregnant woman who carries an (unwanted) child to term, but fails to consider the following 18 or 20 years when she assumes the responsibility for raising said child to adulthood. Same with “fat man” — why does fatness matter? This is a very powerful argument and I was shocked the first time I read it. You owe it to yourself to give them a listen. (Imagine that each has it’s own set of organs; it’s just that the twin in the coma draws some life-sustaining resources from her sister, and without them, the sister in the coma will die). Interesting. There’s no argument per se in the thought experiment. I’d agree (and I agree with the OP point about the purpose of thought experiments in general). 138- that’s a bit to relativist for my taste but no time to press the point. Does it make a difference? Found inside – Page 32Eventually , he said he hadn't played tho viola îor twelve years or so ; to tell the truth , he , didn't even possess an instrument -- and why did we want him to play it any ay ? I said I well remmbered his viola ton which , I thought ... Answer (1 of 11): Been there, done that. In the earlier movements the cello occupied a back seat, Debut as Violinist at 10 Born in Glasgow on Aug. 23, 1904, Mr. Primrose started out - as so many viola players have done - as a violinist, and made his debut at the age of 10. As much as I can understand right now, I think you’re right! “My intuition is that it’s OK (or maybe not OK) to unplug, but I’ve learned (maybe from the fat man example) that I shouldn’t trust my intuitions in odd hypothetical situations, so I’ll disregard this example”. Thomson’s “people-seeds” thought-experiment is of this kind. There is, of course, still the general problem of abstraction: is the case of two goods, two factors and two countries close enough to reality to be relevant? This is often appealed to in Trolley cases, but it is not clear that it applies to the cases that Thomson is talking about. He also had very long, thin fingers and without the restriction of performing with sheet music, he flailed about on stage, earning him the nickname ‘Rubber man’. It would allow the death penalty (which I oppose but consider discussable) insofar as it acknowledges the right to die of non-coerced adults. If those are inconsistent that would be helpful. What do you doooOOOOooooOOO? Scissors, paper, rock! Also, tarting these things up as “experiments” is itself a sign of their true intent, which is ideological. Debut as Violinist at 10 Born in Glasgow on Aug. 23, 1904, Mr. Primrose started out - as so many viola players have done - as a violinist, and made his debut at the age of 10. It seems to me that it establishes two things. Accomplished violist Richard Yongjae O'Neill is, in many ways, driven by his past, a legacy of both pain and incredible generosity. Just that i would have expected those to be a minority everywhere. Young children can learn to play the violin the way they learn a language. The tenor violin, known from the 16th century through the 18th century, was midway in size between the viola and cello. What did the viola say to her daughter before crossing the street? Propose a moment’s mutual reflection over a thought experiment and they are likely to club you over the head with a sign bearing a photo of an aborted fetus. However, the tonal qualities of their instruments are quite different. Well, here’s an example. The violin's small size, portability, and mimicry of the human voice have made it popular across cultures and throughout time. This book shows you how to teach yourself the basics so you can start playing quickly. Today, Miss Young acknowledges that switching from the violin to the viola - which she did at 16 - was a practical move in terms of job opportunities, ''but it didn't occur to me at the time . I can perfectly well consider the abortion question and the capital punishment question separately and come up with seemingly opposing conclusions as to their moral acceptability without my underlying beliefs getting damaged beyond repair in the process. It’s about acknowledging the authority of religious figures. She does think there is a determinate meaning to it, and that people have it, but in this essay she is trying to show (and succeeding admirably in my experience) that most people who invoke it have no idea what they are talking about (the Henry Fonda case, among others in the paper, shows this admirably). How could a woman possibly want to choose to not be a mother, given that holy gift of life? Notice the word American there. Wouldn’t this thread be a lot more fun if everybody followed your example and posted vacuous banalities? I made a comment on the Violinist in the new thread. Once the individual violates this agreement the commonwealth is no longer under any obligation to uphold its end of the contract and can put the individual to death. Could it be done in vitro, as with in vitro fertilization? feel that the ensuing increased universal suffering was inevitable. Furthermore, the most common cited special case, and the one relevant to the violinist example, is rape, which does not produce children distinguishable from others. I’m one of these people. This is not a repost. Of course there is. Yet, ironically, as an orchestrator, his greatest contribution to the history of music was demonstrating how, almost magically, the winds might be introduced into the mostly string backdrop of the Classical orchestra. It is when all the detail is stripped out then the examples are going to seem difficult to visualise, contrived and ‘odd’ (like the economics chestnuts about countries that only manufacture hotdogs and buns, etc.) As I say, the paper says nothing to them about which of the views they should reject. What conception does is to produce a cell that is genetically distinct from the mother. And one of these things is the occupant of the Mr. and Mrs. Frederick P. Rose chair—a seat that principal violist Cynthia Phelps has called… Is kinship the important factor? So what does this tell us about what thought experiments do in moral philosophy? You stole my viola, cello, and double bass. (Or maybe she’s trying to help clarify, in a roundabout way, that the concrete meaning is not agreed-upon or well-understood, even by users of that phrase.). Certainly not something that gradually deteriorates. That was my point a bit above. If they then took up residence in your husband’s uterus, abortion would become a sacrament. the point of the violinist case is simply to argue that the right to life is consistent with killing someone, if certain requirements of justice are already met. 'As player and teacher, Durrant has done more for the viola in Scotland than anyone,' says Potter. It shifts through a single phrase, or in even smaller units as you play. Violinist definition, a person who plays the violin. Because the situation of a person’s body being vitally connected to another being is not that unusual. In this scenario, the use of the “famous violinist” rather than, say, the “infamous serial rapist and killer”, focuses the reader’s attention solely on the victim and beneficiary of her kidneys rather than the crime of kidnapping and assault. Just as with the violinist, there might have been logic behind their inclusion in the story, but the reason they are always in the story is that they became useful handles, not because the logic of their inclusion was so strong. The cases where abortion would be permitted seem to be those: 1) where the mother has no moral responsibility for the pregnancy, i.e., rape 2) where the burden on the mother is greater than usual. (b) You can choose not to act, in which case the train will go right and kill more people or go left. It is a shame that it takes such ludicrous contortions to do this. I’ve replaced randomness with a principle, physical/medical attachment with a tax extorted by thugs, and medical staff with police. I was already at a loss as to the goal of the exercise (which I freely admit was likely my fault and not the instructor’s), and the artificial constraints being imposed on this already weirdly arbitrary hypothetical just frustrated and exasperated me. Guess which is the real Whore of Babylon? Would it make a difference to you if the thugs were really nice and didn’t beat you up? This conclusion then, as a further application, has relevance to the matter of abortion insofar as the fetus is thought to have a right to life. (2) Despite (1), it is not wrong to lock murderers up in prison. By making it such a bizarre and unpredictable situation, it highlights an aspect of opposition to abortion that is, I think, often present but rarely explicit: the sense that pregnant women are responsible for their condition (here one either makes an exception for victims of rape or just carefully avoids thinking about them). It was tuned F-c-g-d′. The example is an apt illustration of what it means “sharing one’s body with another human being for nine months”. My sense of JQ’s scepticism about thought experiments is that he sees them as intended to be conversation stoppers. ”. (b) You can choose not to act, in which case the train will go right and kill more people or go left. That is why I propose to ask how many times Cheney would have to waterboard his wife until he would admit it’s torture. Well, very brief, but from Witt’s report I think the instructor failed to put the thought experiment in its place. Found inside – Page 19For example , violinist / violist ply as “ modern jazz . ” He expected some of his string Leroy Jenkins performed with a quartet players to improvise , parjazz group that did not play with Svend Asmussen ticularly violist Jimbo Ross and ... What did the viola say to her daughter before crossing the street? The first may not be so good: I think it is thought that in cases where the stakes are high it is easier for respondents to see that there is a real need to make a judgment and judgment is, somehow, sharpened. But it’s not as if she’s trying (she must be trying) to kill the fetus. I do not think that the mass absolution extended by the anti-abortion movement to women who have abortions says anything about their deepest motivation; it’s strictly tactical. Such as your claim. by YOONJ KIM Glance at Richard Yongjae O'Neill's bio, and the picture becomes clear pretty quickly: The first violist in the history of Juilliard to receive the Artist Diploma. A major contribution but not, in my view, the one Harry describes. Unfortunately, following Friday's master class, the video . Aled Jones Or, I suppose, the pro-choicer who wants the violinist to stay plugged in has to say “Hmm, I guess my opinion really depends on the fetus’ not being a real person, so the biological differences are important,” or something. Nobody so far in this thread seems to have focused on this. So the violinist-example, precisely by leaving out some of the important-but-unacknowledged aspects of anti-abortion opinion, forces people to make those aspects explicit (“the situation is different because…”), and thus to examine their own beliefs. Found inside – Page 175A Journal for Professional and Amateur Violinists and Quartet Players ... I did , with the result that I stuck to the viola , got into the Handel Festival Band , and only declined the invitation to the last festival because I felt - to ... Putting the Pieces Together The following parts are considered to be the most important parts of any stringed instrument, including the viola. His embalmed body was left on his deathbed in Nice for two months, before it was transferred to the cellar of the house, where it remained for over a year. Paganini died of larynx cancer on 27 May, 1840 in Nice, France. Isn’t it quite a common and obvious move? There’s the obligation to be chaste, the obligation to be pretty, the obligation to “Smile!” when you’re walking down the street, the obligation to justify one’s purchase of certain medications, the obligation to be “nice”. So I don’t think that what Thomson does is point out an inconsistency in people’s beliefs. That’s what exasperates me most about this issue: I feel like there’s a 50-50 chance I’ll run into someone who conceptualizes women who have sex wtihout intent to reproduce as agents of evil exploiting the weaknesses of mankind for their own nefarious ends, and a 50-50 chance that I’ll run into someone who cannot possibly see women as moral agents except insofar as they are submissives… and somehow these folks all agree with each other.^2^ Heck, the groups overlap substantially. Why does someone that thinks abortion is murder use such minor issues as birthrate as argument against abortions in the first place. I’ve no idea what the point of it was (its not a standard example in moral Philosophy), but one thing the instructor needs to do is to explain what the point of it is; another is to explain why certain kinds of thing are worth thinking about and others are not (as they come up). something like, “no you do not have the right to exit the situation, you are morally bound to accept your position alongside the violinist” — at which point the case is silent. Because the real world is complicated and so we tend to find stories that reflect this more believable, don’t we? The abuse done with those torture excuse models is just shocking. Either he might be killed/injured but fail to stop the trolley or, if I didn’t push, some other event might occur that would prevent the disaster. An answer to this question would, I think, be much more interesting. That seems not to be like a contract at all. Found inside – Page 114W. E. Hill and Son are good enough to send the following remarks on a violin bearing the label J. G. Voight , about ... I beg to say that I have a Duo for flute or violin and viola by Jauchoeur , and I play Lindblad's Trio for piano ... What rights would the woman have if the embryo were genetically the same? At that point men, women, violinists become irrelevant, it’s the group itself that suffers. After all, I believe most death penalty opponents believe that people normally have the right not to be involuntarily confined, but only the anarchists among them believe that people cannot forfeit this right by their actions. If the violinist case were like seeing a man drowning in every way, it wouldn’t be the violinist case. Women’s screams were said to be heard from his violin when he performed on stage. If you concede the hypothetical “Assuming that preventive war is the only way prevent disaster, do you support it”, you get stuck with the problem of trying to argue against dodgy dossiers, SOTUs and the like. No doubt there are Mark Steyn types out there who have reasoned themselves into the view that abortion of white babies is a threat to The Race and is to be opposed for that reason. @Darius: I agree with much of this. It seems there is a very narrow range of things one is permitted to consider, and a very narrow range of conclusions one is permitted to draw (for example, wondering about how the situation arose, in a science fiction kind of way, is not permitted, nor is proposing new examples—on the other hand, it is permitted to change the subject to abortion or foreign aid—yet not every change of subject will be allowed). ….there is no right to abortion, and that we do not have extensive and demanding enforceable obligations to strangers. In the latter case, she has a choice to abort. Unfortunately, we both know he’d say something horrible like “guilty of fornication without intent to reproduce” and then you and I would end up exasperated and frustrated as he dodged around the question of rape (even though focusing on rape would be giving in to the horrible assertion that sex without intent to reproduce is in any way inherently reprehensible). Some thought he was a metaphorical musical God, others thought he literally got his virtuosity from a deal with the Devil. Tom – but then she has established something, viz that the right to life is a marginal issue here, and it is not the right to life per se, but the moral force of some connection, that requires one not to abort. Found inside – Page 45I ask my father , what did the [ klezmer ] violinists sound like , and he says , " Ekh ! " and that the violinist never took a bath ... they were just the necessary evils that had to be there ; he says his grandmother was afraid of them ... (I think, BTW, that I have just refuted by counterexample the thesis that this particular thought experiment is never useful.). You don’t have the right to do it yourself, because you’re just God’s property, as of course is every fertilised embryo He chooses to give you, which you will dam’ well carry to term unless He chooses to abort it Himself. (It does not merely do this; in giving the argument as a thought experiment Thomson gives no conclusive reasons for eliminating the disjuncts but simply tries to persuade us that we all really reject the second disjunct already and by the same token tries to make the cases as similar as possible to rule out any obvious reason to accept the first disjunct.). He was 65 years old. Besides her career as a violinist, she is a professor at a college of music in Frankfurt and the mother of a 1-year-old son. The painting itself is enjoyable. I thought this was a somewhat ridiculous example, but I doggedly attempted to play along in good faith. You can say that the basic techniques are the same or similar and yet playing on a viola is a complete different world compared with playing on a violin. I do try to put thought-experiments etc on the table, but also to put them in their place, showing what they can and can’t do. I wanted to know what kind of animals were on the island, and what kind of weather. 146- luckily they don’t carry that o’er here. I think (as explained in 58) it is a useful one as it conveys how pregnancy differs from other relationships. Not a lot of people will be daft enough to be 100% pro abortion and 100% anti death penalty in any super-strict way. Is that possible with human eggs? Therefore, they decide that everyone whose name is John has a moral obligation to help support the violinist. Why does someone that thinks abortion is murder use such minor issues as birthrate as argument against abortions in the first place. When thought experiment-like things happen in real life, people just grope in the dark. THE VIOLIN CHANNEL - October 26, 2021 0. It’s a pretty easy resolution on the pro-abortion rights, anti-death penalty side if you step away from the violinist first — all you need is a belief that people convicted of crimes are the sort of thing that have rights, including a right not to be killed, but that fetuses are not the sort of thing that have rights, and the inconsistency drops right out. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing. As a teenage student, I was given the hypothetical situation of a child growing up alone on a desert island, and asked: Would it develop its own moral code? So, including this irrelevant distraction seems to me, at best to complicate things to no purpose, and at worst, to stack the deck in favor of the view that it is OK to unplug._. But unfortunately when Lindsey was on the show, she received . It is a shame that it takes such ludicrous contortions to do this. In other words, I believe it fails even on the level of pedagogy. I’m one of those ‘lefty students’ who doesn’t find this argument convincing: a fetus is not a famous violinist. Thought experiments attempt to isolate parts of complex questions to make them answerable in simple ways but it’s a huge leap to generalize them to the larger problems. Worse even, trying to get out is an infraction. How did the violinist learn to play violin? Interesting. Even the rights of a one-day-old & known sex offender can’t be so neatly summarized; they have more rights than the mere right to live. “I think you may have a stronger idea of the analogy here than is justified.”. The Green Violinist, 1923-24 by Marc Chagall. Starting with the blonde one. Otherwise you’re, hmm, nuts? Would it be permissible for the twin not in a coma to have the separation operation? An equal claim, regardless of ability to pay, on basic reasonable social effort to maintain and promote health and life? He contracted syphilis in 1822, which was treated with mercury, leading to further health problems. It would be seeing a man drowning. But if you really do mean the latter, would you also assert that the state should require all citizens, under penalty of imprisonment (or, possibly, death), to donate their entire assets to Haitian relief (to use a current example), even at a small but not negligible risk of their own insolvency or starvation? I can see how one might assert a duty, the stringency of which varies inversely with distance (however one define “distance”). Apologies but I think that’s exactly the wrong way around. Looking forward to getting started (just waiting for a shoulder rest so I don't cramp up after 5 minutes). Since I support abortion and rather on the left I suppose I’m one of Those Guys. The only real challenges I encountered were reading alto clef, reading multiple clefs in the same piece of music, and the larger fingering intervals on the left hand. Mrs Tilton — Dick Miller has a lovely paper about Singer called “Beneficence, Duty and Distance” which is the best attempt I’ve seen to show why distance matters (so one might have a very stringent duty to save someone near to hand but a less stringent duty to save someone more distant). 3. I don’t think anyone should be discomforted by their views about a thought experiment because they should understand that their views about thought experiments aren’t really as concrete or fathomable as their views about things that really happen, views that have developed over the course of their life. The violin, viola, and cello were first made in the early 16th century, in Italy. I appreciate that this thread is about the viability of the thought experiment, but choosing abortion as your growth medium is disqualifying; I can’t apply it. No, it’s about sex, and the necessity to maintain the penalties for having it with the wrong people. I see the violinist case as a possible way to clarify to someone who is hammering on about “right to life” that maybe they don’t believe in a “right to life” in the way they are claiming — except I’ve never successfully convinced someone of that. 7. JQ@7 summed up my response to the “famous violinist” distraction. Is there really a mainstream debate out there that thinks it should be ok to abort under the premise that the fetus is a full human being. Even though I share Thomson’s general aim, my response to the violinist was to punch him for ruining him my outfit, pull the plugs out, hunt down the kidnappers, call the cops, sue for wrongful imprisonment, and my dry cleaning bill. @harry “The point of the fat man is to warn you not to trust your intuitions” That’s a good point, and I don’t trust my intuitions except in situations where they have had plenty of practice in reaching reasonably good answers. Hmmm…have you ever monitored your kids’ online games activity? How far are we going here? But in the end it is simply ideology — the need to link quite unrelated social situations. It is said he could play 12 notes per second – a feat later achieved by violinist David Garrett, who plays Paganini in The Devil’s Violinist, a 2013 film based on the composer’s life story. I remember last time this came up on Crooked Timber a young man posted to say ‘I should not be forced to support the violinist, because unlike the pregnant woman, I am innocent’. Or, I suppose, the pro-choicer who wants the violinist to stay plugged in has to say “Hmm, I guess my opinion really depends on the fetus’ not being a real person, so the biological differences are important,” or something.
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